GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

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GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Dave Clements
Hi All,

Maria Doyle will be officially representing GTN at the GOBLET AGM in Brisbane, early next month.  Maria works at PeterMac in Melbourne and is a Galaxy veteran.  Two other Galaxy veterans, Annette McGrath of CSIRO and Igor Makunin of U Queensland, will also be there to present Galaxy savvy points of view.

I'd like to come up with a list of agenda items for Maria to present on behalf of GTN.


Last year's list:  

Last year we discussed what our priorities for the GOBLET meeting should be. and came up with this list.  Here's what I think happened with those 5 items:

1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.

As far as I can tell no action has been taken.

2. Either start sending a regular newsletter, or stop saying we have one.

This has been started.

3. Should GOBLET offer a bioinformatics trainer certification?

I have no emails since the last meeting with the words GOBLET and certify/certification in them.  So, no progress.

And from Peter VH during last year's meeting:

There is not really a concept of Goblet Certified Trainer being thrown around but there has been a discussion on what a "Goblet branded" set of training materials or course would involve. The idea is that certain requirements have to be met to get this "Goblet branded" badge.

4.  Make it easier to publish, share, and refine training material.

I should have titled this "Embrace the Carpentry model for training materials."

The Galaxy Community has actually made a lot of progress on this independent of GOBLET.  There was a two day training material hackathon this month.  See here. (I'm hoping to have a summary in the November newsletter as well.)

As far as I can tell, GOBLET has not done anything with this.  

There is an item on this year's agenda about GOBLET's relationship with Software Carpentry, not about training materials per se.

5. Shared Training Datasets are Precious!

No progress from GOBLET here either.  However, Björn and Bérenice made progress on this for Galaxy during the October hackathon.

This year's list:

What should be on this year's list?  What are our priorities for the coming year?  How can GOBLET help us?  How can we help GOBLET?

I encourage you to post your ideas to this list.  I'll send my suggestions in a separate email as well.


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Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Dave Clements
Hi All,

Here is my starting list for discussion about what GTN should promote at GOBLET this year.

1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.

They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.

2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets

Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.

Open Questions:

A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?

I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.

B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?

Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:

Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.

3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. 

Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.

I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.

4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?

We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.

Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.

GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.  

The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.

No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.


Thanks for reading this far,

Dave C



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Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Hans-Rudolf Hotz-2
Hi Dave and GTN members


I will just use the points Dave has mention and will try to expand them a little bit:


>
> 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>
> They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.

+1

Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )



> 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>
> Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.


and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a discussion forum (see point 1 )


> Open Questions:
>
> A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>
> I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.

+1



> B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>
> Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>
> Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.


why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this approach works.



> 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>
> Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>
> I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.


+1


> 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>
> We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>
> Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.


Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?




> GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.  


+1


> The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.


I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I want to know what is happing with this money



> No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.

+1



Hans-Rudolf
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Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Dave Clements
Hi Hans-Rudolf, Maria, all

The GOBLET meeting starts next Monday, which means we need to get this settled as soon as possible.  So far their hasn't been much discussion, which means Hans-Rudolf and I get what we (HRH+DC) want.  I'd rather present what we (GTN) want.  Which means we need your input now.

If there's no discussion in the next 24 hours we'll go with what we have, which is below

1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.

Biostar or Github recommended.  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets

Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"

HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for a year and report.

Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will receive better at the time (or suggest both as options).

3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. 

Gosh this seemed like a good idea when it's implementation was a week in the future.

Depending on discussion in the next day, 
- I'll start working with Björn and Bérénice (and possibly HRH) tomorrow to get these done.

4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?

HRH asks two questions.

Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?

They are in contact with me.  I forward what I think are the interesting emails on to the Galaxy-Training list.  Most of the significant ones were about workshops, either sponsored by GOBLET or relevant to GOBLET membership.   There were also 2 editions of the new GOBLET Newsletter.  Several of the events were directly relevant to GTN membership.

I was also invited to consider running for a GOBLET office.  I declined this as the offer came during a month when I was swamped, and trying to avoid commitments.

What I haven't seen, outside of the events, is a call to action, such as:
- advertise your event through GOBLET channels.
- Share you materials through GOBLET.
and so on.  (Both those things are available, I just don't do them.  )

I want to know what is happing with this money

My memory is that this is covered in detail at the GOBLET meeting.  I suspect that this is already published online, and if it's not, I bet we could get them do it pretty easily.

My Proposal:
1. GTN stays in GOBLET for another year.
2. We let them know that we discuss this value proposition every year.

My 23¢,

Dave C



>
> 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>
> They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.

+1

Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )


> 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>
> Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.

and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a discussion forum (see point 1 ) 
> Open Questions:
>
> A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>
> I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.

+1



> B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>
> Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>
> Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.


why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this approach works.



> 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>
> Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>
> I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.


+1


> 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>
> We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>
> Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.


Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?




> GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.


+1


> The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.


I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I want to know what is happing with this money



> No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.

+1



Hans-Rudolf



--

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Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Björn Grüning


Am 01.11.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Dave Clements:

> Hi Hans-Rudolf, Maria, all
>
> The GOBLET meeting starts next Monday, which means we need to get this
> settled as soon as possible.  So far their hasn't been much discussion,
> which means Hans-Rudolf and I get what we (/HRH+DC)/ want.  I'd rather
> present what we (/GTN/) want.  Which means we need your input now.
>
> If there's no discussion in the next 24 hours we'll go with what we
> have, which is below
>
> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

1. Biostar
2. Github
3. ML


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
reasonable state to the end of the year.

> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>
> Gosh this seemed like a good idea when it's implementation was a week in
> the future.
>
> Depending on discussion in the next day,
> /- I'll start working with Björn and Bérénice (and possibly HRH)
> tomorrow to get these done./
>
> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
> *
> *
> HRH asks two questions.
>
>     Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?
>
>
> They are in contact with me.  I forward what I think are the interesting
> emails on to the Galaxy-Training list.  Most of the significant ones
> were about workshops, either sponsored by GOBLET or relevant to GOBLET
> membership.   There were also 2 editions of the new GOBLET Newsletter.
> Several of the events were directly relevant to GTN membership.
>
> I was also invited to consider running for a GOBLET office.  I declined
> this as the offer came during a month when I was swamped, and trying to
> avoid commitments.
>
> What I haven't seen, outside of the events, is a call to action, such as:
> - advertise your event through GOBLET channels.
> - Share you materials through GOBLET.
> and so on.  (Both those things are available, I just don't do them.  )
>
>     I want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
> My memory is that this is covered in detail at the GOBLET meeting.  I
> suspect that this is already published online, and if it's not, I bet we
> could get them do it pretty easily.
>
> My Proposal:
> /1. GTN stays in GOBLET for another year./

+1

They are also trying to find a spot next to Carpentry, ELIXIR training
and GTN. -> tess ...

> /2. We let them know that we discuss this value proposition every year./

And let's ask them about the money and how this is spend.

Thanks,
Bjoern

> My 23¢,
>
> Dave C
>
>
>
>     >
>     > 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>     >
>     > They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.
>
>     +1
>
>     Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )
>
>
>     > 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>     >
>     > Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.
>
>     and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a
>     discussion forum (see point 1 )
>
>     > Open Questions:
>     >
>     > A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>     >
>     > I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     > B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>     >
>     > Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>     >
>     > Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.
>
>
>     why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this
>     approach works.
>
>
>
>     > 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>     >
>     > Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>     >
>     > I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>     >
>     > We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>     >
>     > Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.
>
>
>     Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in
>     contact with GTN?
>
>
>
>
>     > GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.
>
>
>     I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I
>     want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
>
>     > No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     Hans-Rudolf
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://galaxyproject.org/
> http://getgalaxy.org/
> http://usegalaxy.org/
> https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/ <https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
> in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
> and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
>   https://lists.galaxyproject.org/
>
> To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
>   http://galaxyproject.org/search/mailinglists/
>
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Re: [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Doyle Maria
Hello Dave, Hans-Rudolf, Bjoern and all,

I'm happy to raise those points on behalf of GTN if that's what we go with, I just have a few questions on two of them.

> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

> 1. Biostar
> 2. Github
> 3. ML


Excuse the ignorance but what is ML?
Were Biostar or any of these other options discussed at GOBLET last year? As if so were there any specific objections to using them?
And why is Biostar deemed the best option?


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

> Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
> follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
> reasonable state to the end of the year.


Are we suggesting GOBLET set up a github too for material or would that just lead to duplication? Or is it that GOBLET would collate and provide links to the various githubs (Carpentry, ELIXIR etc)?

Cheers,

Maria

Maria Doyle
Application and Training Specialist
Research Computing Facility
Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre

________________________________________
From: Galaxy-training [[hidden email]] on behalf of Björn Grüning [[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:24 AM
To: Dave Clements; Hans-Rudolf Hotz
Cc: Galaxy-Training List
Subject: [SPAM][M] Re: [gxy-train] GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Am 01.11.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Dave Clements:

> Hi Hans-Rudolf, Maria, all
>
> The GOBLET meeting starts next Monday, which means we need to get this
> settled as soon as possible.  So far their hasn't been much discussion,
> which means Hans-Rudolf and I get what we (/HRH+DC)/ want.  I'd rather
> present what we (/GTN/) want.  Which means we need your input now.
>
> If there's no discussion in the next 24 hours we'll go with what we
> have, which is below
>
> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

1. Biostar
2. Github
3. ML


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
reasonable state to the end of the year.

> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>
> Gosh this seemed like a good idea when it's implementation was a week in
> the future.
>
> Depending on discussion in the next day,
> /- I'll start working with Björn and Bérénice (and possibly HRH)
> tomorrow to get these done./
>
> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
> *
> *
> HRH asks two questions.
>
>     Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?
>
>
> They are in contact with me.  I forward what I think are the interesting
> emails on to the Galaxy-Training list.  Most of the significant ones
> were about workshops, either sponsored by GOBLET or relevant to GOBLET
> membership.   There were also 2 editions of the new GOBLET Newsletter.
> Several of the events were directly relevant to GTN membership.
>
> I was also invited to consider running for a GOBLET office.  I declined
> this as the offer came during a month when I was swamped, and trying to
> avoid commitments.
>
> What I haven't seen, outside of the events, is a call to action, such as:
> - advertise your event through GOBLET channels.
> - Share you materials through GOBLET.
> and so on.  (Both those things are available, I just don't do them.  )
>
>     I want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
> My memory is that this is covered in detail at the GOBLET meeting.  I
> suspect that this is already published online, and if it's not, I bet we
> could get them do it pretty easily.
>
> My Proposal:
> /1. GTN stays in GOBLET for another year./

+1

They are also trying to find a spot next to Carpentry, ELIXIR training
and GTN. -> tess ...

> /2. We let them know that we discuss this value proposition every year./

And let's ask them about the money and how this is spend.

Thanks,
Bjoern

> My 23¢,
>
> Dave C
>
>
>
>     >
>     > 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>     >
>     > They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.
>
>     +1
>
>     Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )
>
>
>     > 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>     >
>     > Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.
>
>     and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a
>     discussion forum (see point 1 )
>
>     > Open Questions:
>     >
>     > A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>     >
>     > I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     > B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>     >
>     > Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>     >
>     > Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.
>
>
>     why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this
>     approach works.
>
>
>
>     > 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>     >
>     > Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>     >
>     > I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>     >
>     > We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>     >
>     > Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.
>
>
>     Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in
>     contact with GTN?
>
>
>
>
>     > GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.
>
>
>     I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I
>     want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
>
>     > No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     Hans-Rudolf
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://galaxyproject.org/
> http://getgalaxy.org/
> http://usegalaxy.org/
> https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/ <https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
> in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
> and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
>   https://lists.galaxyproject.org/
>
> To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
>   http://galaxyproject.org/search/mailinglists/
>
___________________________________________________________
Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
  https://lists.galaxyproject.org/

To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
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This email (including any attachments or links) may contain
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Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this email
(including any attachments) are not waived or lost by
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If you have received this email in error, please delete it
and notify us immediately by telephone or email.  Peter
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Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
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Re: [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Jennifer Hillman-Jackson
Hi Maria -

ML = Mailing list

I think that a format such as Biostar is preferred because it is an ongoing, organized forum that is easy/familiar for most people to use. Prior Q&A is easily tagged and available for searches. Important info tends to get lost in mailing lists over time, which leads to duplicated questions and more maintenance. 

Honestly, I am not sure how Github would be used if the goal is to create a space for discussion ... perhaps someone else can comment on that. Maybe a GH Wiki was the goal? This could be complimentary to a forum, although it is possible to create semi-permanent (yet editable) content within a forum that can be referenced for Q&A. News can also be posted (updates, status, newsletters (?) ). All in one place is generally a good idea and avoids content duplication. Any forum post could link to github repos containing the actual training material.

Cheers!


Jen

--
Jennifer Hillman-Jackson
Galaxy Application Support

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Doyle Maria <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Dave, Hans-Rudolf, Bjoern and all,

I'm happy to raise those points on behalf of GTN if that's what we go with, I just have a few questions on two of them.

> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

> 1. Biostar
> 2. Github
> 3. ML


Excuse the ignorance but what is ML?
Were Biostar or any of these other options discussed at GOBLET last year? As if so were there any specific objections to using them?
And why is Biostar deemed the best option?


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

> Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
> follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
> reasonable state to the end of the year.


Are we suggesting GOBLET set up a github too for material or would that just lead to duplication? Or is it that GOBLET would collate and provide links to the various githubs (Carpentry, ELIXIR etc)?

Cheers,

Maria

Maria Doyle
Application and Training Specialist
Research Computing Facility
Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre

________________________________________
From: Galaxy-training [[hidden email]] on behalf of Björn Grüning [[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:24 AM
To: Dave Clements; Hans-Rudolf Hotz
Cc: Galaxy-Training List
Subject: [SPAM][M] Re: [gxy-train] GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Am 01.11.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Dave Clements:
> Hi Hans-Rudolf, Maria, all
>
> The GOBLET meeting starts next Monday, which means we need to get this
> settled as soon as possible.  So far their hasn't been much discussion,
> which means Hans-Rudolf and I get what we (/HRH+DC)/ want.  I'd rather
> present what we (/GTN/) want.  Which means we need your input now.
>
> If there's no discussion in the next 24 hours we'll go with what we
> have, which is below
>
> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

1. Biostar
2. Github
3. ML


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
reasonable state to the end of the year.

> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>
> Gosh this seemed like a good idea when it's implementation was a week in
> the future.
>
> Depending on discussion in the next day,
> /- I'll start working with Björn and Bérénice (and possibly HRH)
> tomorrow to get these done./
>
> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
> *
> *
> HRH asks two questions.
>
>     Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?
>
>
> They are in contact with me.  I forward what I think are the interesting
> emails on to the Galaxy-Training list.  Most of the significant ones
> were about workshops, either sponsored by GOBLET or relevant to GOBLET
> membership.   There were also 2 editions of the new GOBLET Newsletter.
> Several of the events were directly relevant to GTN membership.
>
> I was also invited to consider running for a GOBLET office.  I declined
> this as the offer came during a month when I was swamped, and trying to
> avoid commitments.
>
> What I haven't seen, outside of the events, is a call to action, such as:
> - advertise your event through GOBLET channels.
> - Share you materials through GOBLET.
> and so on.  (Both those things are available, I just don't do them.  )
>
>     I want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
> My memory is that this is covered in detail at the GOBLET meeting.  I
> suspect that this is already published online, and if it's not, I bet we
> could get them do it pretty easily.
>
> My Proposal:
> /1. GTN stays in GOBLET for another year./

+1

They are also trying to find a spot next to Carpentry, ELIXIR training
and GTN. -> tess ...

> /2. We let them know that we discuss this value proposition every year./

And let's ask them about the money and how this is spend.

Thanks,
Bjoern

> My 23¢,
>
> Dave C
>
>
>
>     >
>     > 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>     >
>     > They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.
>
>     +1
>
>     Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )
>
>
>     > 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>     >
>     > Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.
>
>     and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a
>     discussion forum (see point 1 )
>
>     > Open Questions:
>     >
>     > A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>     >
>     > I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     > B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>     >
>     > Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>     >
>     > Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.
>
>
>     why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this
>     approach works.
>
>
>
>     > 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>     >
>     > Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>     >
>     > I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>     >
>     > We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>     >
>     > Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.
>
>
>     Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in
>     contact with GTN?
>
>
>
>
>     > GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.
>
>
>     I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I
>     want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
>
>     > No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     Hans-Rudolf
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://galaxyproject.org/
> http://getgalaxy.org/
> http://usegalaxy.org/
> https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/ <https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
> in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
> and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
>   https://lists.galaxyproject.org/
>
> To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
>   http://galaxyproject.org/search/mailinglists/
>
___________________________________________________________
Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
  https://lists.galaxyproject.org/

To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
  http://galaxyproject.org/search/mailinglists/

This email (including any attachments or links) may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information and is
intended only to be read or used by the addressee.  If you
are not the intended addressee, any use, distribution,
disclosure or copying of this email is strictly
prohibited.
Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this email
(including any attachments) are not waived or lost by
reason of its mistaken delivery to you.
If you have received this email in error, please delete it
and notify us immediately by telephone or email.  Peter
MacCallum Cancer Centre provides no guarantee that this
transmission is free of virus or that it has not been
intercepted or altered and will not be liable for any delay
in its receipt.

___________________________________________________________
Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
  https://lists.galaxyproject.org/

To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
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___________________________________________________________
Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
in your mail client.  To manage your subscriptions to this
and other Galaxy lists, please use the interface at:
  https://lists.galaxyproject.org/

To search Galaxy mailing lists use the unified search at:
  http://galaxyproject.org/search/mailinglists/
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Re: [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Doyle Maria
Hi all,

Thanks for all the input into what points to raise at the GOBLET AGM on behalf of GTN.

To update you all, I presented on the points on Tuesday and yesterday using the slides kindly provided to me by Dave and Bjoern & Bérénice and the outcomes were:

*1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

I raised the GTN suggestion of having a Biostars forum for GOBLET. There was some discussion as to whether the Biostars Q&A format is more suited to technical issues as opposed to training discussions but we're going to try it out and see how it goes. Eija Korpelainen will be getting in touch with István Albert to see about setting it up.

*2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets*

GOBLET is going to try a pull and place model, in that it will pull from repos like GTN, and they'll be talking to ELIXIR about TESS in relation to that. GOBLET will also be a place to develop material and have it's own github repo. We got the ball rolling with setting up a github during the meeting, now just need to sort out permissions and add material :)

*3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *

Thanks to Dave, Bjoern and Bérénice for their slides, they were very useful for illustrating the points.

*4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*

Hopefully you all think we should, I do and I put my hand up to be on the GOBLET Outreach and PR Committee so if you haven't heard from or about GOBLET in a year's time you can throw some blame my way :)

To answer the question on what is the membership money used for, it's been used for tech intern salary, admin support salary, server support, publicity, booth expenses, AGM. One of the main things it'll be used for in the next year will be for a technical intern to revamp the website and there'll be a survey sent to all GOBLET members so they can give input on what the new website should look like. I could also post it here when it's ready so GTN members can give their input if they want.

And it relation to trainer certification, that's in the too hard basket at the moment.

If anyone has any questions or comments please let me know. I can also update GTN when there's more to say.

Cheers,

Maria

Maria Doyle
Application and Training Specialist
Research Computing Facility


[http://i.imgur.com/tG0nMXg.jpg]


From: Jennifer Hillman-Jackson <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Date: Thursday, 3 November 2016 at 8:48 AM
To: test <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Cc: Björn Grüning <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Dave Clements <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Hans-Rudolf Hotz <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Galaxy-Training List <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Subject: Re: [gxy-train] [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Hi Maria -

ML = Mailing list

I think that a format such as Biostar is preferred because it is an ongoing, organized forum that is easy/familiar for most people to use. Prior Q&A is easily tagged and available for searches. Important info tends to get lost in mailing lists over time, which leads to duplicated questions and more maintenance.

Honestly, I am not sure how Github would be used if the goal is to create a space for discussion ... perhaps someone else can comment on that. Maybe a GH Wiki was the goal? This could be complimentary to a forum, although it is possible to create semi-permanent (yet editable) content within a forum that can be referenced for Q&A. News can also be posted (updates, status, newsletters (?) ). All in one place is generally a good idea and avoids content duplication. Any forum post could link to github repos containing the actual training material.

Cheers!


Jen

--
Jennifer Hillman-Jackson
Galaxy Application Support
http://usegalaxy.org
http://galaxyproject.org
http://biostar.usegalaxy.org


On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Doyle Maria <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
Hello Dave, Hans-Rudolf, Bjoern and all,

I'm happy to raise those points on behalf of GTN if that's what we go with, I just have a few questions on two of them.

> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

> 1. Biostar
> 2. Github
> 3. ML


Excuse the ignorance but what is ML?
Were Biostar or any of these other options discussed at GOBLET last year? As if so were there any specific objections to using them?
And why is Biostar deemed the best option?


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

> Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
> follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
> reasonable state to the end of the year.


Are we suggesting GOBLET set up a github too for material or would that just lead to duplication? Or is it that GOBLET would collate and provide links to the various githubs (Carpentry, ELIXIR etc)?

Cheers,

Maria

Maria Doyle
Application and Training Specialist
Research Computing Facility
Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre

________________________________________
From: Galaxy-training [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>] on behalf of Björn Grüning [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:24 AM
To: Dave Clements; Hans-Rudolf Hotz
Cc: Galaxy-Training List
Subject: [SPAM][M] Re: [gxy-train] GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Am 01.11.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Dave Clements:

> Hi Hans-Rudolf, Maria, all
>
> The GOBLET meeting starts next Monday, which means we need to get this
> settled as soon as possible.  So far their hasn't been much discussion,
> which means Hans-Rudolf and I get what we (/HRH+DC)/ want.  I'd rather
> present what we (/GTN/) want.  Which means we need your input now.
>
> If there's no discussion in the next 24 hours we'll go with what we
> have, which is below
>
> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*

> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)

1. Biostar
2. Github
3. ML


> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
> datasets*
>
> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>
> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
> a year and report.
>
> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./

Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
reasonable state to the end of the year.

> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>
> Gosh this seemed like a good idea when it's implementation was a week in
> the future.
>
> Depending on discussion in the next day,
> /- I'll start working with Björn and Bérénice (and possibly HRH)
> tomorrow to get these done./
>
> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
> *
> *
> HRH asks two questions.
>
>     Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?
>
>
> They are in contact with me.  I forward what I think are the interesting
> emails on to the Galaxy-Training list.  Most of the significant ones
> were about workshops, either sponsored by GOBLET or relevant to GOBLET
> membership.   There were also 2 editions of the new GOBLET Newsletter.
> Several of the events were directly relevant to GTN membership.
>
> I was also invited to consider running for a GOBLET office.  I declined
> this as the offer came during a month when I was swamped, and trying to
> avoid commitments.
>
> What I haven't seen, outside of the events, is a call to action, such as:
> - advertise your event through GOBLET channels.
> - Share you materials through GOBLET.
> and so on.  (Both those things are available, I just don't do them.  )
>
>     I want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
> My memory is that this is covered in detail at the GOBLET meeting.  I
> suspect that this is already published online, and if it's not, I bet we
> could get them do it pretty easily.
>
> My Proposal:
> /1. GTN stays in GOBLET for another year./

+1

They are also trying to find a spot next to Carpentry, ELIXIR training
and GTN. -> tess ...

> /2. We let them know that we discuss this value proposition every year./

And let's ask them about the money and how this is spend.

Thanks,
Bjoern

> My 23¢,
>
> Dave C
>
>
>
>     >
>     > 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>     >
>     > They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.
>
>     +1
>
>     Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )
>
>
>     > 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>     >
>     > Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.
>
>     and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a
>     discussion forum (see point 1 )
>
>     > Open Questions:
>     >
>     > A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>     >
>     > I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     > B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>     >
>     > Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>     >
>     > Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.
>
>
>     why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this
>     approach works.
>
>
>
>     > 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>     >
>     > Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>     >
>     > I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>     >
>     > We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>     >
>     > Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.
>
>
>     Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in
>     contact with GTN?
>
>
>
>
>     > GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.
>
>
>     +1
>
>
>     > The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.
>
>
>     I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I
>     want to know what is happing with this money
>
>
>
>     > No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.
>
>     +1
>
>
>
>     Hans-Rudolf
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://galaxyproject.org/
> http://getgalaxy.org/
> http://usegalaxy.org/
> https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/ <https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/>
>
>
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Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Hans-Rudolf Hotz
Hi Maria


Thank you very much for attending the GOBLET AGM on behalf of GTN this
year. And a special big thank you for sending out this nice summary.



Regards, Hans-Rudolf



On 11/10/2016 04:52 AM, Doyle Maria wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for all the input into what points to raise at the GOBLET AGM on behalf of GTN.
>
> To update you all, I presented on the points on Tuesday and yesterday using the slides kindly provided to me by Dave and Bjoern & Bérénice and the outcomes were:
>
> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*
>
> I raised the GTN suggestion of having a Biostars forum for GOBLET. There was some discussion as to whether the Biostars Q&A format is more suited to technical issues as opposed to training discussions but we're going to try it out and see how it goes. Eija Korpelainen will be getting in touch with István Albert to see about setting it up.
>
> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets*
>
> GOBLET is going to try a pull and place model, in that it will pull from repos like GTN, and they'll be talking to ELIXIR about TESS in relation to that. GOBLET will also be a place to develop material and have it's own github repo. We got the ball rolling with setting up a github during the meeting, now just need to sort out permissions and add material :)
>
> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>
> Thanks to Dave, Bjoern and Bérénice for their slides, they were very useful for illustrating the points.
>
> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
>
> Hopefully you all think we should, I do and I put my hand up to be on the GOBLET Outreach and PR Committee so if you haven't heard from or about GOBLET in a year's time you can throw some blame my way :)
>
> To answer the question on what is the membership money used for, it's been used for tech intern salary, admin support salary, server support, publicity, booth expenses, AGM. One of the main things it'll be used for in the next year will be for a technical intern to revamp the website and there'll be a survey sent to all GOBLET members so they can give input on what the new website should look like. I could also post it here when it's ready so GTN members can give their input if they want.
>
> And it relation to trainer certification, that's in the too hard basket at the moment.
>
> If anyone has any questions or comments please let me know. I can also update GTN when there's more to say.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Maria
>
> Maria Doyle
> Application and Training Specialist
> Research Computing Facility
>

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Re: [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Björn Grüning
In reply to this post by Doyle Maria
Ha, this sounds great!

Let's see what the new year brings for training!

It's great that Goblet will have a github account, this is a good step
forward!

Thanks a lot!
Bjoern

Am 10.11.2016 um 04:52 schrieb Doyle Maria:

> Hi all,
>
> Thanks for all the input into what points to raise at the GOBLET AGM on behalf of GTN.
>
> To update you all, I presented on the points on Tuesday and yesterday using the slides kindly provided to me by Dave and Bjoern & Bérénice and the outcomes were:
>
> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*
>
> I raised the GTN suggestion of having a Biostars forum for GOBLET. There was some discussion as to whether the Biostars Q&A format is more suited to technical issues as opposed to training discussions but we're going to try it out and see how it goes. Eija Korpelainen will be getting in touch with István Albert to see about setting it up.
>
> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets*
>
> GOBLET is going to try a pull and place model, in that it will pull from repos like GTN, and they'll be talking to ELIXIR about TESS in relation to that. GOBLET will also be a place to develop material and have it's own github repo. We got the ball rolling with setting up a github during the meeting, now just need to sort out permissions and add material :)
>
> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>
> Thanks to Dave, Bjoern and Bérénice for their slides, they were very useful for illustrating the points.
>
> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
>
> Hopefully you all think we should, I do and I put my hand up to be on the GOBLET Outreach and PR Committee so if you haven't heard from or about GOBLET in a year's time you can throw some blame my way :)
>
> To answer the question on what is the membership money used for, it's been used for tech intern salary, admin support salary, server support, publicity, booth expenses, AGM. One of the main things it'll be used for in the next year will be for a technical intern to revamp the website and there'll be a survey sent to all GOBLET members so they can give input on what the new website should look like. I could also post it here when it's ready so GTN members can give their input if they want.
>
> And it relation to trainer certification, that's in the too hard basket at the moment.
>
> If anyone has any questions or comments please let me know. I can also update GTN when there's more to say.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Maria
>
> Maria Doyle
> Application and Training Specialist
> Research Computing Facility
>
>
> [http://i.imgur.com/tG0nMXg.jpg]
>
>
> From: Jennifer Hillman-Jackson <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Date: Thursday, 3 November 2016 at 8:48 AM
> To: test <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Cc: Björn Grüning <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Dave Clements <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Hans-Rudolf Hotz <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>, Galaxy-Training List <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Subject: Re: [gxy-train] [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting
>
> Hi Maria -
>
> ML = Mailing list
>
> I think that a format such as Biostar is preferred because it is an ongoing, organized forum that is easy/familiar for most people to use. Prior Q&A is easily tagged and available for searches. Important info tends to get lost in mailing lists over time, which leads to duplicated questions and more maintenance.
>
> Honestly, I am not sure how Github would be used if the goal is to create a space for discussion ... perhaps someone else can comment on that. Maybe a GH Wiki was the goal? This could be complimentary to a forum, although it is possible to create semi-permanent (yet editable) content within a forum that can be referenced for Q&A. News can also be posted (updates, status, newsletters (?) ). All in one place is generally a good idea and avoids content duplication. Any forum post could link to github repos containing the actual training material.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> Jen
>
> --
> Jennifer Hillman-Jackson
> Galaxy Application Support
> http://usegalaxy.org
> http://galaxyproject.org
> http://biostar.usegalaxy.org
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Doyle Maria <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Hello Dave, Hans-Rudolf, Bjoern and all,
>
> I'm happy to raise those points on behalf of GTN if that's what we go with, I just have a few questions on two of them.
>
>> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*
>
>> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)
>
>> 1. Biostar
>> 2. Github
>> 3. ML
>
>
> Excuse the ignorance but what is ML?
> Were Biostar or any of these other options discussed at GOBLET last year? As if so were there any specific objections to using them?
> And why is Biostar deemed the best option?
>
>
>> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
>> datasets*
>>
>> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>>
>> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
>> a year and report.
>>
>> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
>> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./
>
>> Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
>> follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
>> reasonable state to the end of the year.
>
>
> Are we suggesting GOBLET set up a github too for material or would that just lead to duplication? Or is it that GOBLET would collate and provide links to the various githubs (Carpentry, ELIXIR etc)?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Maria
>
> Maria Doyle
> Application and Training Specialist
> Research Computing Facility
> Peter MacCallum Cancer Centre
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Galaxy-training [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>] on behalf of Björn Grüning [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 8:24 AM
> To: Dave Clements; Hans-Rudolf Hotz
> Cc: Galaxy-Training List
> Subject: [SPAM][M] Re: [gxy-train] GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting
>
> Am 01.11.2016 um 21:06 schrieb Dave Clements:
>> Hi Hans-Rudolf, Maria, all
>>
>> The GOBLET meeting starts next Monday, which means we need to get this
>> settled as soon as possible.  So far their hasn't been much discussion,
>> which means Hans-Rudolf and I get what we (/HRH+DC)/ want.  I'd rather
>> present what we (/GTN/) want.  Which means we need your input now.
>>
>> If there's no discussion in the next 24 hours we'll go with what we
>> have, which is below
>>
>> *1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.*
>
>> /Biostar or Github recommended./  (I lean towards Biostar-like solutions.)
>
> 1. Biostar
> 2. Github
> 3. ML
>
>
>> *2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training
>> datasets*
>>
>> /Yes.  Maybe even "Hell yes!"/
>>
>> HRH suggests pushing for this now, instead of proposing GTN try this for
>> a year and report.
>>
>> /Maria, I suggest you push for whichever option you think they will
>> receive better at the time (or suggest both as options)./
>
> Yes please, https://github.com/bgruening/training-material is trying to
> follow the Carpentry model already and we will make sure this is in a
> reasonable state to the end of the year.
>
>> *3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push. *
>>
>> Gosh this seemed like a good idea when it's implementation was a week in
>> the future.
>>
>> Depending on discussion in the next day,
>> /- I'll start working with Björn and Bérénice (and possibly HRH)
>> tomorrow to get these done./
>>
>> *4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?*
>> *
>> *
>> HRH asks two questions.
>>
>>     Has GOBLET been in contact with GTN?
>>
>>
>> They are in contact with me.  I forward what I think are the interesting
>> emails on to the Galaxy-Training list.  Most of the significant ones
>> were about workshops, either sponsored by GOBLET or relevant to GOBLET
>> membership.   There were also 2 editions of the new GOBLET Newsletter.
>> Several of the events were directly relevant to GTN membership.
>>
>> I was also invited to consider running for a GOBLET office.  I declined
>> this as the offer came during a month when I was swamped, and trying to
>> avoid commitments.
>>
>> What I haven't seen, outside of the events, is a call to action, such as:
>> - advertise your event through GOBLET channels.
>> - Share you materials through GOBLET.
>> and so on.  (Both those things are available, I just don't do them.  )
>>
>>     I want to know what is happing with this money
>>
>>
>> My memory is that this is covered in detail at the GOBLET meeting.  I
>> suspect that this is already published online, and if it's not, I bet we
>> could get them do it pretty easily.
>>
>> My Proposal:
>> /1. GTN stays in GOBLET for another year./
>
> +1
>
> They are also trying to find a spot next to Carpentry, ELIXIR training
> and GTN. -> tess ...
>
>> /2. We let them know that we discuss this value proposition every year./
>
> And let's ask them about the money and how this is spend.
>
> Thanks,
> Bjoern
>
>> My 23¢,
>>
>> Dave C
>>
>>
>>
>>     >
>>     > 1. Enable/Host online discussion about bioinformatics training.
>>     >
>>     > They could use the BioStar platform, and this would give all bioinformatics trainers a platform to discuss questions.  I think BioStar has been a huge win for the Galaxy community.
>>
>>     +1
>>
>>     Yes, any kind of discussion forum would be nice….(see also point 2 )
>>
>>
>>     > 2.  Embrace the Carpentry model for training material and training datasets
>>     >
>>     > Software and Data Carpentry put all their training materials in GitHub where the trainer community can (and does) update the materials.  The Galaxy training materials hackathon earlier this month made significant progress on this very approach.
>>
>>     and the nice thing about GitHub: it can also  be used as a
>>     discussion forum (see point 1 )
>>
>>     > Open Questions:
>>     >
>>     > A) Do we as a community believe that this is a worthwhile approach for training materials?
>>     >
>>     > I'm pretty sure I speak for the Galaxy team when I say that we believe it is.  How do GTN members (and anyone on this mailing list) feel?  There was a lot of community participation in this month's contribution fest.
>>
>>     +1
>>
>>
>>
>>     > B) If we think it's a good approach, how can we argue it's good for GOBLET as well?
>>     >
>>     > Something we could propose that gets GOBLET membership thinking, and doesn't require them to actually do anything until the following year:
>>     >
>>     > Propose that GTN be a test case for this approach, and that we present our experience and whatever best practices we've learned at the 2017 GOBLET meeting.
>>
>>
>>     why wait till 2017? I think we can already show now that this
>>     approach works.
>>
>>
>>
>>     > 3. We prepare short presentations on whatever points we decide to push.
>>     >
>>     > Maria could show these when making presenting GTN's arguments.  They would need to be short.
>>     >
>>     > I could create one for the forum suggestion,  Björn, Bérenice, and myself could create one for the training materials proposal.
>>
>>
>>     +1
>>
>>
>>     > 4. Should GTN stay in GOBLET?
>>     >
>>     > We discussed this last year and decided to give it another year, which is now almost done.
>>     >
>>     > Something that was supposed to happen, but that mostly did not, is that I would be a lot more active in GOBLET.  Besides passing on emails to this list, I don't think I did this.  So, 2016 may or may not have been our year to discover the greatness of GOBLET, but given my inactivity, we just don't know.
>>
>>
>>     Well, we can ask the other way round as well: Has GOBLET been in
>>     contact with GTN?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     > GOBLET still strikes me as having great potential that it just hasn't realized yet.
>>
>>
>>     +1
>>
>>
>>     > The yearly membership is €250.  Last year this was paid by the Galaxy Community Fund.  If this group decides we should stay in GOBLET then I'll present a funding request to them for 2017.
>>
>>
>>     I don’t want to debate whether 250 Euro is a lot of money or not. I
>>     want to know what is happing with this money
>>
>>
>>
>>     > No matter what we decide we should let GOBLET know that we had this discussion, and what points we came up with.
>>
>>     +1
>>
>>
>>
>>     Hans-Rudolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://galaxyproject.org/
>> http://getgalaxy.org/
>> http://usegalaxy.org/
>> https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/ <https://wiki.galaxyproject.org/>
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> Please keep all replies on the list by using "reply all"
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>>   https://lists.galaxyproject.org/
>>
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>>   http://galaxyproject.org/search/mailinglists/
>>
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Re: [SPAM][M] Re: GTN at 2016 GOBLET meeting

Dave Clements
Hi Maria, all,

Maria, thanks for attending for putting forth the Galaxy Training community's points.  It sounds like it was a very successful meeting.  I particularly look forward to seeing how the Biostar forum does.

And thanks for volunteering for the GOBLET Outreach and PR Committee.  I'll do my best to secure a GTN GOBLET membership for 2017 (and I don't think that will be difficult).  Also, please let me/us know if we can support you in that role in any way.

Finally,was a location for the GOBLET 2017 meeting set?

Thanks again,

Dave C



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